April 3, 2011

Hi,

Your order has shipped, here is your UPS tracking information below. Thank you for your order!

April 22, 2011

Hi,

I have received your shipping invoice.  I have refunded your credit card for the missing items on your order as follows:

Italian TVP $10.88

You paid $149.53 in shipping, we were charged $157.32 ($7.79 debit). Your credit card was refunded today for $3.09, this should show up on your statement in 3 - 4 business banking days.

We do not accept any back orders on out of stock Rainy Day items, which is why you are simply being refunded for the Rainy Day missing items not included on your order. 

Our refund policy can be found here: http://survivalacres.com/policy.htm

~Survival Acres~
Survival Acres - Storable Food & Supplies
Website: http://survivalacres.com

April 23, 2011

I just got finished inventorying the past two orders I received from you (shipped from Walton Feed)

ORDER # 1790741

In addition to the missing Italian TVP, there were other 4 other items missing from the shipment.

The packing slip from Walton Feed indicated that the 4 missing items were in the shipment even though they were not.

There were however, two (substituted?) items that I did not order.

I added up the price of the substituted items and subtracted the price of the missing items and there is a small price surplus, so I don't
necessarily feel shortchanged.

I am willing to accept this order as shipped despite being shipped alternate items I didn't want.

I do feel strongly that if substitutions are going to be made, that the customer should be first contacted. This is a bad business policy on the
part of Walton Feed.

I also have a problem with the order that I placed about 1 week earlier.

ORDER #1788328

Completely missing from the Walton feed packing slip and missing from the shipment:

SA10545 TVP Beef Jerky #2.5 can Qty 1 @ $5.35

I can send you a scanned copy of the Walton Feed packing slip and a copy of my original order if you need proof.

I would appreciate it if the Beef Jerky TVP would be shipped. If a substitute must be made then I would accept a #2.5 Beef TVP even though it costs $1.61 less.

Thanks for making this right.

Best Regards,
Greg G.

April 23, 2011

Hi,

I'm unable to decipher what you mean on the first order.  You did not state what items were substituted.

We do not do substitutions, and neither does the cannery, so it is more likely you received something you were not supposed to get. But you did not tell me what they were, so I will need that to unravel this.

My copy of the shipping invoice only shows 1 item missing, which was the 16 bean mix (which I missed on your refund). 

I caught the Italian TVP refund because it was out of stock when you ordered (showed "out of stock" on our website) and we marked this right on the top of the order when we placed it. So you are still owed a refund for the 16 bean mix (2 cans).

You said "there were 4 other items missing from the shipment". You're going to need to be specific and tell me what they are.

If necessary, make a complete inventory list of what you actually received and send this to me.

What else is missing, and what was substituted that you were not supposed to receive?

On your February 20th order, the TVP Beef Jerky never even made it (also out of stock and now discontinued) to the shipping invoice, so you get a refund for this item too.

~ Survival Acres ~
Survival Acres - Storable Food & Supplies
Website: http://survivalacres.com

April 23, 2011

Hello,

On 4/23/2011 5:52 PM, sales@survivalacres.com wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm unable to decipher what you mean on the first order. You did not
> state what items were substituted.

OK, this is a little complicated, let me describe things one at a time.

> On your February 20th order, the TVP Beef Jerky never even made it (also
> out of stock and now discontinued) to the shipping invoice, so you get a
> refund for this item too.

This was the first order #1788328. The only thing wrong was the missing the TVP Beef Jerky. If you could ship a regular Beef TVP that would be
great (it costs $1.61 less than the TVP beef jerky but I'd gladly call it even). I would actually take any type of #2.5 can TVP as a substitute. If you prefer to do a refund, that's OK too....

As for the second order... Oh boy,

Let's simplify this.

I am actually fine with accepting the mistakes because the value of the things I got in error is probably similar to what I didn't get.

FYI, the other 4 missing items were the 16 bean mix (2 cans), split green peas (6 cans), vegetable soup (2 cans) and refried beans (1 can).

I got a case of green beans by mistake (probably in place of the missing case of split green peas). I think that pretty much makes up the difference since the green beans cost much more than the split green peas.

I'm really not interested in paying the return shipping on the green beans, and I suspect the shipping on the missing case of split green peas and the other 5 cans (about 58 lbs total) isn't going to be cheap for you either.

If I could have a #2.5 can of TVP (any type) missing from the Feb 20th order - or a refund for that, I'll be happy.

Best Regards,
Greg G.

April 24, 2011

Hi,

As a followup to the message I sent last evening (below) I took the time this morning to calculate the value of the missing items vs. the case of green beans I received by mistake.

I got a case of green beans (6 cans) by mistake. I suspect this was a mixup with the case of split green peas. The green beans are currently
priced at $80.52.

As for what I did not get:

1 can of Italian Sausage TVP $10.88
1 case of split peas (6 cans) $37.11
2 cans of Vegetable soup @ $7.70 each - $15.40 total
2 cans of 16 Bean Mix @ 10.18 - $ 20.36 total
1 can of Beans refried @ 10.05

Total not received is $93.80

So, it looks like I actually came out a bit behind ( -$13.28).

However, the shipping charges for me to return the case of green beans is probably going to be at least this much - probably more.

Also, it really concerns me that you will pass along the shipping charges for the missing items to me and bill my credit card for them.
I appreciate the fact that shipping charges are high and getting higher.

However, this was not my mistake.

Your policy of billing for additional shipping charges beyond what was agreed upon at the time of the order really concerns me. I am not
willing to take a (double) hit on the shipping charges on the 50 to 60 pounds of items that I was shorted.

If you must do that, then lets forget the whole thing and I'll write off the $13.28 loss as a lesson learned.

Regards,
Greg G.

April 24, 2011

Hi,

You have made a grave misunderstanding. Let me explain:

Your shipping invoice was received on Friday, 4/22/11.  This invoice shows only 1 item missing, 16 bean mix.  And the Italian TVP was not even on the shipping invoice, but was written on the order as "out".  This is the only part I caught when I did your refund.

I refunded you for the Italian TVP on 4/22/11, completely missing the 16 bean mix, then sent you an email with the refund notice. 

In accordance to our policy  you are supposed to pay for any additional shipping charges if we did not collect enough when we process your refund.

Up until this point - I had not heard from you regarding any other missing items, or "substituted" items, so had absolutely no idea anything else was wrong.

Your initial refund was based upon my shipping records.  I showed Italian TVP was out on the order, and the shipping invoice only showed the 16 bean mix was out, but I did miss this item.

Then you do an inventory and in several emails (versus just 1 which is much easier) you depict "substitutions" (which we do not do, you simply received something you were not supposed to), and missing items, all after I'd did the first refund.

So now your upset because you think I'm charging you for items you did not want, that are not your fault but your assumption is dead wrong. You are not responsible for our mistakes (just yours).

In your first email reply, you utterly failed to tell me what the "substitutions" were.  This left me completely confused. I cannot unravel the items, the cost or the shipping unless I understand what exactly you received.  It was obvious it was not the same as the shipping invoice copy that I have.

You simply said "4 other items were missing".   And you said "there were two other items I did not order". 

But this remained a mystery as to what it actually was -- and I still can't unravel this because you have still failed to provide an ITEMIZED LIST of what you actually received.

I need this list.  This is required of you instead of your long convoluted emails and misunderstandings.

You are not responsible for shipping costs on mis-shipped items, so just forget that issue, I'm not even going to deal with it because it is not true.

You are responsible to itemize what you received.  I need this to work with the cannery, the shipping invoice and the original order.

All your other points about weights, substitutions, shipping costs are absolutely irrelevant and will be ignored -- because we need to get your order shipped to you correctly.  Making these "cost comparisms" is also irrelevant, or issue that you have to pay for any of this (you do not).

This is what you need to do:  Provide an itemized list in writing of what you actually received on your 3/5/11 order (#1790741).

List the items received and their respective quantities.

Missing items will be corrected by reshipment or refund. Nothing will be substituted. Shipping costs will be corrected (by us).

This is not complicated, it is very simple -- but you are indeed making it extremely complicated.

Your 2/20/11 order (#1788328) is missing the TVP Beef Jerky. You get a refund for this item, end of story. I will issue the TVP Beef Jerky refund today. This item is out of stock, has been discontinued and is no longer available.

Do not include anything in your inventory list for the 2/20/11 order, it is not applicable to the March order.

~ Survival Acres ~
Survival Acres - Storable Food & Supplies
Website: http://survivalacres.com

(there was no reply from Greg G. to this email)

April 26th, 2011

I have notified the cannery with regards to your mis-shipment.

This is what they said:

> I pulled up the order and checked. The shipped sent the beans instead of the split peas.
> However in the 9th box there was a can of re fried beans, 1 can gravy and 2 cans vegetable. I
> am wondering if he did not get the vegetable soup what he did get-mixed vegetables? You
> were not charged for the 16 bean soup mix, did you receive an email on this?
>
> We will ship the split green peas and issue a sticker for him to return the green beans. I tracked
> the packages and show that all 10 cases were delivered so check on the vegetables and refired
> beans. he did not report missing the gravy so he must have gotten it. Let me know what you
> find out. thanks, Cheryl

The cannery is shipping the split peas and a call tag for the return of the green beans.  You will need to have this case of green beans ready for pickup by UPS (sealed).

Case #9 is supposed to contain the 1 can refried beans and 2 cans vegetables.

We still need an itemized list of actual items received. This is my third time requesting this from you.  If you do not provide this then we will do nothing more in regards to your order.

~ Survival Acres ~
Survival Acres - Storable Food & Supplies
Website: http://survivalacres.com

April 26, 2011

Freaking unbelievable.

You accuse me of sending a long convoluted email and then you send me one that is an order of magnitude worse. Don't think so? Try reading YOUR last email again!

I've completely documented the MISSING items. You are not going to FORCE me to spend an hour plus of MY TIME itemizing ALL of the stuff I DID
receive. That serves no purpose other than possibly to get me so frustrated that I give up. I received EVERYTHING ELSE that I ordered - EXCEPT those items I already listed. (scroll down to read them again)

It's SIMPLE. I see it as YOU who is trying to complicate things.

If I receive a call tag for the case of Green Beans, they will be sent back. It's up to you at that point to decide if you are going to replace any of the MISSING ITEMS - WHICH I HAVE DOCUMENTED. If you choose not to because I haven't provided you with redundant documentation that meets
your DEMANDS - then congratulations, you win. I refuse to be ordered or intimidated by anyone with an attitude like yours.

I offered to drop this whole thing in my last email message after YOU started complicating things. I will say it AGAIN. LETS DROP IT!

I really expect nothing else from you now. I could say a lot more, but it would serve no purpose. My time is to valuable to me to waste on this... I want to write this whole transaction off as a bad experience and just forget about it.

Greg G.

April 27th, 2011

It is not "redundant" documentation.  It is essential documentation required to determine actual items you received, and therefore their total costs and their total weight.

Whether you believe it or not, it was required documentation in cases like this.  It is a common and normal business practice.

The cannery shipped 220 lbs according to UPS records.  This does not match your alleged missing item list, it's off by quite a bit.

You have also failed to address box #9 and the contents within it.

Your refusal to adhere to normal practices of listing what you actually received has caused all of this problem. You diverged off into costs (all wrong, since the website prices you listed do not even apply) and price comparisons.  None of which is relevant to receiving an accurate order.

You also made several allegations regarding being charged "additional shipping charges".  All of your assumptions are dead wrong.  Addressing these issues only pissed you off, making you unreasonable and defensive.

My attempts to rectify your mis-shipments canot be completed without your cooperation. But your refusal is clear.

The call tag has been cancelled. Nothing more will be done with your order.

Here is the items we believe you actually received, without your help, and their costs, and their shipping charges:  

The Italian TVP is not listed (already refunded). The 16 Bean mix not received is not listed.  The Split Peas not received are not listed.
The case of Green Beans received is listed.

The total cost of items received is $739.58.

You paid $741.35 on 3/5/11 through our shopping cart.

You were already refunded $3.09 on the Italian TVP, making your total payment $738.26 for items received.

Therefore, you were not overcharged for items received.

Your steadfast refusal to cooperate on any mis-shipments simply means that you intend to keep the items received (in violation of our customer agreement).

You have been moved to the bad customer list, and the cannery has been notified and is in agreement.

We will have nothing more to do with you in the future.

On your 2/20/11 order, the missing Beef Jerky TVP was refunded $14.05 on 4/25/11.

This concludes our business with you. No further communications from you will be accepted.

~ Survival Acres ~
Survival Acres - Storable Food & Supplies
Website: http://survivalacres.com

April 27th, 2011

You and the cannery screwed up several times and you ADMITTED it. Put yourself in my position and consider how much you would trust someone
who had been jacked around the way I have. I guess you don't operate that way. I was going to write this whole thing off. Afterall - I'm the one that
LOST on this deal. By your own admission, you haven't moved to rectify anything based upon my word.

If you won't take my word for any of my claims, perhaps a picture will convince you... I ordered two cans of Green Beans. How many can you
count in the attached picture?

I'd take pictures of the MISSING items, but I haven't figured out a way to do that yet. Any suggestions?

I don't know what was in box #9. I didn't document it. I didn't expect to need to. As for the so-called weight discrepancies, that isn't
something I can control. I don't have an answer. I simply told you the facts. If you don't believe me, then that is your choice.

> You have been moved to the bad customer list, and the cannery has been notified and is in agreement. We will have nothing more to do with you
> in the future.

This is not my style, but if you are going to blackball me, I feel it is my duty to warn off others of your corrupt business practices. You lit the fire now. I don't take kindly to being screwed over.

> This concludes our business with you. No further communications from you
> will be accepted.

The feeling is mutual, I don't want to talk to a lying criminal anymore either.

(I have not replied to this clown, who has now made it clear he's not the least bit interested in an accurate inventory or paying for any products he was not entitled to recieve. Nobody has jacked this guy around, he did it to himself.)

Summary

Greg G. still refuses to provide us with the required information (inventory of items received). And he has refused to inspect the contents of Box #9 which contains the items he claims is missing.

This poses some particular problems, namely Greg G. has made a fraudulent claim (on all points as it turns out). It's very hard to believe someone that won't even perform a complete and accurate check of the products they have received and yet continues to allege their missing products. You can't have it both ways -- either check everything you received or stop your complaint. This is simple common sense -- and a widely accepted customer responsibility at every business in the country.

Greg G.'s story early on began to make less and less sense, because the weight of products shipped and product allegedly recieved did not add up to his claim of missing items. His refusal to tell us what he actually recieved also became highly suspect the longer he refused.

However, on April 23rd he'd claimed he'd done a "complete inventory" (but would not share this with us). Nor would he address the fairly large weight discrepency on items received (UPS detailed records show 220 lbs, 10 boxes shipped and received at 22 lbs each).

We now know why. Essentially, Greg G. has made a major tactical mistake. The shipping records do not back up his story at all. If he actually provided us with an inventory, he would be forced to admit his mistake. We keep detailed shipping records, including the actual contents of each shipping box. Greg G. now knows this since we told him exactly what was in Box #9 and is caught in his lie. So his defense is to steadfastly refuse cooperation, refuse to do a complete inventory and share this list with us, and allege that he's been ripped off (when just the opposite is true, Greg G. has now recieved more products then he was entitled to).

Greg G. has alleged several things, none which is actually true. He claims a "loss" (not true) but admits he actually received a "small price surplus" on April 23. He alleges we charge for "additional shipping charges" which is blatantly false and has no basis in fact. Then, on April 24th, still refusing to check the contents of Box #9, he changes his mind and now alleges he's shorted $13.28 -- which is also quite wrong, since he still has not even bothered to inventory Box #9 (which we know he received as shown in the cannery email).

Greg G. sent us a picture of 8 cans of Green Beans, a near-meaningless gesture, since we both know that 8 cans of Green Beans was received, but he's unable (and unwilling) to provide the any of the rest of the inventory received. The cannery has already admitting their error shipping 6 extra cans of Green Beans instead of the 6 cans of Split Peas and had issued a call tag to return the Green Beans and replace with Split Peas, but Greg G. still isn't happy and intends to keep these. Green Beans are much lighter (and much more costly) then Split Peas -- another discrepency that Greg G. refuses to unravel.

It is impossible to believe almost anything Greg G. has claimed since he can't back up anything, nor is he willing to take the proper steps to make his claim legitimate.

Greg G. doesn't even bother to address the detailed quote I sent him, documenting what we believe he actually received. He simply admits he can't be bothered to check Box #9 ( "I don't know what was in box #9. I didn't document it. I didn't expect to need to"), which is quite bizarre (and dishonest) behavior by someone who claims he's been cheated.

Either Greg G. is a liar, lazy or both. Probably both in my opinion, because his track record of wasting our time and screwing around is quite clear. He never did have any real interest in doing this right and getting this fixed. For someone who has gone to all the trouble he has of what he alleges is missing, then refusing to actually look inside a box is a strong indication that he's now backed into a corner with his mistake.

For all these reasons, Greg G. of Osceola Mills, PA wins the Hall of Shame Award.

In any case, it is impossible to work with customers who like this, who make allegations with no basis in fact, distort the facts and the evidence and refuse any cooperation. We suspect that Greg G. has done this because he has received more then he was entitled to, but would not allow us to see the inventory and make it right.

From our perspective, customer like Greg G. make it bad for everyone. We're distracted off in never-never land trying to unravel their issues and read minds. Bad information or missing information makes this worse, while other customers needs are being neglected. We strive to get each order right, but mistakes do happen. When they do, we simply admit it, it's not a big deal. Not being allowed to fix our mistakes is almost unheard of.

The bad customer list exist for this reason (and we do use it). No cannery in America should do business with such people (no business in America should). Problem customers do this elsewhere and usually have a history of this type of behavior with other businesses.

~Survival Acres~